Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham and basketball trainer Drew Hanlen opened this week’s episode of their podcast, “No Hesitation,” by working through what Cunningham called a week full of “what the f moments in basketball.”
“I feel like there’s always some really great clips that go around, with especially the NBA going on. College hoops is officially back,” Cunningham said. “But I feel like this week we had a lot of, like, what the f moments in basketball, and so I feel like we should just get into it, because I was like, what are we watching right now?”
Over the episode, the two reacted to players scoring on their own basket, a fan ejected from a Los Angeles Lakers game, Luka Doncic’s historic start and a wave of injuries to NBA stars. They closed with a frank film session on Cunningham’s own game as she prepares for the offseason.
The first clip came from Cunningham, who sent Hanlen a sloppy sequence between two of the NBA’s better teams after seeing WNBA players criticized for similar possessions.
“We send a lot of clips back and forth throughout the week,” Cunningham said. “And it’s just funny because we talk about in the NBA, I feel like all you typically see is like really great clips because they’re phenomenal athletes, but in the WNBA media, you rarely ever see like the great clips. You always see the bad clips. And so when I saw that, I was like, ‘Hey, you guys do it, too.'”
“It’s not a highlight. And I’m not dissing them,” she said. “But I just feel like everyone’s like, ‘Oh, the NBA never has possessions like that.’ … I’m like, ‘No, they do. It’s just harder to find on social media.'”
Hanlen, whose NBA clients include Boston Celtics star Jayson Tatum, agreed the coverage is different. He admitted his first reply to her text was a joke.
“I said, ‘Yeah, I thought it was the WNBA,’ until I saw the dunk,” Hanlen said. “But no, it is true.”
Hanlen said he thinks the NBA has also gotten “a little bit sloppier” as teams lean on the 3, pointing to transition possessions where players are “jacking threes up.”
“You’re like, ‘Wait a second, this is bad basketball,'” he said. “I think it is fair that we show that it does happen in all the other leagues.”
What does not happen often, Hanlen said, is a player scoring on the wrong basket. It happened twice in women’s college basketball this week.
In the first clip, with 20 seconds left in a game separated by a single point, a player made a steal and laid the ball into her own basket. Her teammates celebrated, apparently unaware, and Hanlen noted her team rallied to win anyway.
“Oh, the fans are going crazy, too,” Cunningham said.
“Dude, the fans were going crazy,” Hanlen said. “Are, like, are we not paying attention? What is going on?”
The second came in a game between Northwestern State and Arkansas.
“This is rare to see it once, but for it to happen twice,” Hanlen said. “So, just a wild week to have people score on their own hoops.”
Cunningham was drawn to the bench. “Look at the bench reaction. Like, look at all the teammates right here on the bench,” she said. “Maybe the coach, like, what? … All like, what are we doing?”
“But how does that happen? Like, how does that actually happen?” she said. “I will never understand that, truly.”
The hosts then turned to a free throw that went viral because, as Hanlen put it, “it looks more like she’s throwing a football.”
“I got tagged in this so much on social media, ’cause they’re like, ‘Coach, how would you fix this?'” Hanlen said. “And I was like, ‘There’s no fixing this. This is like you got to scrap this and start from zero.'”
Cunningham said she knows the shooter.
“I actually went to college with her brother, and he has a beautiful shot, and I know this girl,” she said. “She’s up from the Kansas City area, and she’s a beast, but she did not used to shoot like that.”
“I think a lot of people, when they get to certain levels or stuff isn’t clicking, instead of like grinding it out and just sometimes going through, you know, the struggle, that it’s a mental thing,” Cunningham said. “So they feel like they have to fix everything and redo, you know, years of building up your shot to this. That’s a wild shot form, I’d say.”
Hanlen agreed the root of the problem is not mechanical.
“Obviously the mechanics is what we see, but it started as a trying to tweak and adjust, I’m guessing, and then it became a mental thing, and once it’s a mental thing it is hard to go back,” he said. “I always say the slumps occur for two reasons. You start overcorrecting or you start overthinking, and when you get both of those things happening, that’s when you see this, where you have the mechanics off and the mentality is off.”
His fix would be to simplify. “I think she’d actually be better from just passing the ball from her shoulders,” Hanlen said. “Hey, we don’t need to focus on where our elbow is, where our hand is. … Let’s get something easy.”
Hanlen said he went through a version of that with Tatum, who opened this season unable to make a 3 because his elbow drifted too high, a habit from high school the two had corrected before the draft. Tatum’s message to him, Hanlen said, was blunt: “Bro, what is wrong?”
“He shot it really well as rookie season. As the NBA seasons go on, he naturally drifts back to sometimes what was comfortable when he was younger,” Hanlen said. “And we just got to the point where we were like, ‘Hey, shoulders forward, shoulders forward.’ ‘Cause if you go forward with your shoulders, the ball can’t go up.”
“The last couple games he’s been knocking down threes at his normal clip,” Hanlen said. “And he’s like, ‘It’s amazing how just keeping your shoulders forward lowers your pocket.'”
Cunningham offered the same advice to young players.
“If anyone is going through this, which everyone does, like literally everyone top to bottom goes through these things, don’t overcomplicate it. Just simplify it,” she said. “So parents, athletes, if you guys are listening, simplify. Don’t try to overcorrect. … Get back to the basics. Basics, basics, basics.”
On the opposite end of the spectrum, Hanlen showed a Kentucky player making shots with his right hand and then, in rhythm, with his left. Hanlen said he was asked on X whether players should develop both.
“I said, no, because you’re only going to use one of them in a game,” Hanlen said. “You don’t want to have to decide in that moment of, do I shoot right hand, do I shoot left hand? And also, let’s say you’re shooting 500 shots a day, I’d rather you master one hand 500 times than have, you know, 250 and 250.”
Cunningham called it “just like a fun skill to have.”
“You need to have consistency, like you said, like get up reps in your dominant hand so you can become elite at that craft,” she said. “And then, you know, basketball is wild. If something happens and they close out and there’s point whatever second left, you got to hitch it up, you have that skill in your bag. … I’m not saying it’s not doable. I just think that you’re better just being really great at one hand.”
“But it’s also beautiful. Like, it looks natural,” she added. “His footwork looks nice. There’s no hitch in his shot.”
Hanlen said the skill has some value for finishing around the rim but little beyond the arc.
“The best shooters in the world can all at least shoot it normally with their weak hand with pretty good form and have good touch, but the ability to knock down shots with both hands is kind of a flashy skill that is not very purposeful,” he said. “I’ll tell you what, I guarantee he wins a lot of HORSE or PIG competitions.”
The conversation then moved to the NBA, starting with a Nov. 4 game in Sacramento where a courtside Kings fan was ejected after firing the ball back at referee Chelisa Painter. Lakers star Luka Doncic confronted the fan.
Cunningham’s first read was mild.
“A firm pass, in my opinion. Nothing crazy,” she said, before watching it again. “He didn’t have to throw it so hard at her. … Oh, no. It’s not that bad.”
Hanlen said he believes the outcome would have been different with a male official.
“My opinion is if this was a male ref, it would have been just play on,” Hanlen said. “If that was a male ref, they might have looked at him crazy, might have said like, ‘Don’t do that again,’ and then moved on. But this fan gets kicked out of the game for that.”
Hanlen said Doncic yelled, “What the f are you doing?” at the fan, which Hanlen called “pretty reckless.” He said a person seated next to the fan later posted online that Doncic had been talking trash to fans all game.
“Luka is really good at picking fans and talking trash to them to motivate him, to get energy going, and then to turn it on and basically prove them wrong,” Hanlen said. “So I just don’t think the fans should get kicked out just because Luka’s been talking trash and Luka is trying to get himself going.”
Cunningham, who called herself a big Doncic fan, questioned that approach.
“First of all, I love Luka. Like, absolutely love him. He’s a freaking beast. Love watching him,” she said. “I know men are different, but the mental side of having to like talk to other people in order to get motivated … ’cause what if they don’t talk back? Then what? Like, don’t you need like an internal motive?”
“Ideally, yes,” Hanlen said.
He then described Game 7 of the 2024 Eastern Conference semifinals at Madison Square Garden, when Indiana Pacers guard Tyrese Haliburton, another of his clients, asked him for something to fuel him.
“I said, find one fan, whether it’s Spike Lee or somebody else, and I just want you to go at them all game, just prove them wrong,” Hanlen said.
Hanlen said a wealthy businessman sitting courtside had criticized Haliburton’s shooting form during warmups, and Haliburton spent the game going back at him.
“Tyrese the whole game was just belittling him, going back and forth, like, ‘This is your fault, this is your fault,'” Hanlen said. “And Tyrese played an unbelievable game.”
Haliburton scored 26 points as the Pacers eliminated the Knicks.
Cunningham was not convinced. “I’m saying, what if he never said that, though?” she said. “You are waiting on other people to get you, like, motivated. Like, what if they don’t?”
Hanlen pointed to the familiar story of Michael Jordan and LaBradford Smith. After Smith scored big against him, Jordan claimed Smith told him “Nice game, Mike,” then matched Smith’s total by halftime the next night. Jordan later admitted Smith never said it.
“He’s like, ‘I just said that just to like motivate myself,'” Hanlen said. “But like, I think that’s what the great players do, is they find some kind of motivation.”
Cunningham said she understood the competitive appeal, just not in this case.
“When you’re a competitor at a high level, you love that, right? Like, you love proving them wrong and like winning that battle,” she said. “But I’m just saying, like, in this instance, like, this dude clearly probably has never played in his life.”
“I think a problem with our society is, like, if that was a dude, like it’s always like gender and race. If that was a dude, no one would have said anything,” Cunningham said. “It’s a female. Just let it happen. … Just let it go. This has made a bigger deal than it needs to be. Like, who cares? Yeah, he probably should have bounce passed it. Maybe didn’t need to throw it too hard.”
“The only reason he got kicked out wasn’t from the pass,” she said. “It’s clearly … because Luka was talking, and then Luka wanted him out.”
Hanlen then played a clip of Doncic tossing the ball toward an official and drawing a technical foul.
“That is karma right there,” Cunningham said.
She asked Hanlen whether that call was soft, and whether his own clients would deserve a technical for the same thing.
“By rule, they’re always going to call it technical if you toss the ball at the ref,” Hanlen said.
He said one of the biggest rule changes he would like to see would erase technicals that follow a missed call. “If the ref blows a call and then you get a technical for arguing that call or doing something like that, … I think that technical should be wiped,” he said.
Hanlen also said officials take too much abuse.
“There’s a really cool video that went viral last season, and it was the old NBA refs, and they were like cussing at players and they were talking down to players, and players never were able to like belittle the refs,” Hanlen said. “I don’t know when that changed, but I hate that refs are like this sometime, where they have to just take all this all game long.”
“If you’ve ever sat courtside at an NBA game or had the chance to listen to like some of the sound effects, players talk reckless to refs,” he said. “I think NBA refs are the best refs in the world. They still make mistakes because they’re human.”
Hanlen said one official gave him a line that stuck.
“They said, ‘Drew, our job is to manage the game,'” Hanlen said. “They didn’t say it was to call every foul. It was to manage the game. It was to make sure that there was equal kind of playing conditions for the teams. … And so I do think that it’s entertainment first.”
Cunningham agreed.
“If that is their job, is managing, and when it is lopsided and they go to actually calling fouls for one team, that’s when people get p***ed, because you’re right, in any league d*** near you could call a foul every single possession down the court,” she said. “At the end of the day, that is a job and a position that you will never satisfy anyone ever.”
She said the difference from the WNBA is noticeable.
“When I go to the NBA games, … you can hear everything. I’m like, see, these refs don’t get emotionally involved. Our refs do,” Cunningham said. “We can’t even look at them a wrong way without getting a tech, and then these guys are going to, like, chewing them a new a**. Like, that’s insane.”
“As we’ve talked about over and over again, I think that’s the next step of the W, is training the refs better, understanding that this is about the players first,” Hanlen said.
Hanlen used the episode to push back on what he sees as constant overreaction from fans.
“Most players, if they play, let’s say, 70 games in a season, they’re going to have 10 great games. They’re going to have 10 really bad games, and they’re going to have 50 just whatever games,” Hanlen said. “But for whatever reason, fans like to jump to conclusions and overreact each and every single night.”
He pointed to Doncic, who shot 38.4% from the field in his first two games.
“There were some people that were like, you know, ‘Oh man, did they make the wrong trade of moving LeBron,’ and this and that, and I’m going, ‘Guys, what are we talking about?'” Hanlen said.
Since then, Hanlen said, Doncic has averaged 42.8 points, 8.1 assists and eight rebounds while shooting 52% from the field and 42% from long range.
“The law of averages is going to play out,” Hanlen said.
He also cited San Antonio’s Victor Wembanyama, who went 1 of 13 from the field in the Spurs’ opener against Oklahoma City. Hanlen said critics immediately questioned whether Wembanyama should play closer to the basket and whether the Spurs were wrong to move Dylan Harper into the starting lineup.
“They made all these conclusions after one game,” Hanlen said.
The Spurs have since won eight straight, Hanlen said, with Wembanyama averaging 32 points, 12 rebounds, three assists and four blocks on 56% shooting.
Hanlen said he heard it himself after Tatum went 6 of 23 with 13 points on opening night.
“Trust me, I was getting hated on like crazy,” Hanlen said. “Everybody’s like, ‘What did he do all summer?’ You know, ‘Oh my God, we made a bad trade.'”
Since then, Hanlen said, Tatum has averaged 29 points, 7.4 rebounds and 6.3 assists, and the Celtics have lost only twice, the best mark in the Eastern Conference.
Cunningham blamed “fantasy sports and gambling.” Hanlen agreed.
Asked whether fans have overreacted to her own games, Cunningham said she spends plenty of time on social media but avoids X, formerly Twitter, during the season.
“Twitter is like the most toxic, and you live on that thing,” she told Hanlen. “That is like the most toxic place, and so I really don’t get on there much during the season at all.”
“I could show you, I’m not even kidding, thousands of DMs of people, and like getting mad at me because I didn’t do something and they lost a lot of money,” she said. “And I’m like, ‘Hey, don’t be a effing idiot. Why would you, like, bet on Kelsey or Caitlin or Aliyah? Why are you betting on me? Like, I don’t even know what’s going to happen that game.'”
Cunningham was referring to Fever teammates Kelsey Mitchell, Caitlin Clark and Aliyah Boston.
“I don’t have the ball enough to know if I’m going to get one three point shot or if I’m going to get 10 of them,” she said. “I was like, you’re an idiot for even doing that.”
She said she tries to focus on the positive.
“There is a lot of hate, but I also think there’s like a lot of positivity. So I just choose to, like, look at the positive. I choose to look at the happy,” Cunningham said. She called social media both “a really bad thing” and “a really, really fun thing.”
“When it comes to betting and gambling, since all that has like really happened and it’s really come into our league as well, fans are so much more vocal about when you don’t perform,” she said. “It’s just something you have to deal with. But yeah, you get a lot of [expletive] for it.”
Hanlen wants more accountability online.
“One thing I wish, I wish social media you had to have your name instead of hiding behind these troll accounts,” Hanlen said. “Like, I wish everyone had to have their name, their picture, ’cause they wouldn’t say the same things.”
Cunningham said the people behind those accounts are not worth the energy.
“Once you, like, really figure out who’s actually saying that, you’re like, ‘I’m not even going to give y’all two seconds of my day, because y’all are some dweebs,'” she said.
She said she recently reposted a clip of Mike Tyson to her Instagram story.
“Mike Tyson … was saying how social media has had like a lot of people hide behind keyboards, where like back in the day, that’s when they would just get, like, knocked out, and he was like, ‘We need to bring that back,'” Cunningham said. “So many, like, pro athletes and everyone was like, ‘Oh my God, I can’t relate more to this.'”
The hosts then dug into Doncic’s start in Los Angeles.
Hanlen said Doncic is averaging 40 points, eight assists and eight rebounds while shooting 49.8% from the field, 42% from long range and 87% at the line. He noted Doncic joined Wilt Chamberlain as the only players to average at least 40 points through nine games.
The free throw number surprised him. “He’s actually struggled with free throws throughout his career and has cleaned that up,” Hanlen said. He credited a roster built around Doncic for the first time in Los Angeles and his improved conditioning.
Then Hanlen turned the numbers on his cohost. Through nine games, he said, Doncic has attempted 221 shots. Cunningham attempted 226 in 43 games last season. Doncic has also taken 102 free throws; Cunningham took 74 all of last season.
“No, talk your [expletive], ’cause I’m about to talk some [expletive] too. So keep going,” Cunningham said.
“I know that we always give you trouble because you guys’ roles is a lot different, but I thought that was amazing,” Hanlen said.
Cunningham had a counter.
“I also think you’re missing a big one. He also makes $50 million a year. I make 700,000 on my WNBA check,” she said. “You should compare me more to Quentin Grimes. You know, we average around, you know, 8 to 10 points. … My three point shooting is actually better than the both of them. And so if we’re going to compare, let’s compare.”
“I got you. I got you,” Hanlen said. “I thought that was too good.”
Cunningham said she has loved watching Doncic and recalled a clip of ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith that has resurfaced on her feed. She said she did not know when it originally aired.
“It’s Stephen A, who’s like, ‘Why would the Lakers ever build a team around three white boys? Like, look at the NBA history. That’s never going to happen. That’s never going to be successful,'” Cunningham said. “And he is out there freaking killing it. I think it’s so funny.”
Hanlen said the Lakers are near the top of the Western Conference alongside Oklahoma City and San Antonio, even though few picked them. “So, it’ll be interesting to see if they can keep that up,” he said.
“It’s still early. Like, it’s about sustainability, if they can do that,” Cunningham said. She asked what kind of players Doncic needs around him.
“Three and D guys,” Hanlen said. “The biggest thing for Luka is he is a guy that you can just give the ball to and spam pick and rolls and DHOs, and he has a solution for every problem.”
DHOs are dribble handoffs.
“He plays at such a slow pace and uses his frame … to just control guys and keep them on his hip,” Hanlen said. “If you play a drop coverage, he’s going to kill you, ’cause he’s either going to hit the three or he’s just going to put you on his hip, slow down, down, down, and it’s either a lob or a float or a layup for him. If you play aggressive, he’s going to foul you out, ’cause he’s so good at drawing fouls.”
“This is the first year that I can honestly say he’s trying on defense, and so that’s huge for them,” he said.
Hanlen said the Lakers still need defenders, shooters who can punish double teams and a big man who can roll to the rim. “He just needs to be able to throw it at the rim,” he said.
Asked whether Doncic is dominant enough to beat a team with three stars, Hanlen said, “I think it just depends on matchups.”
“Am I convinced that the Lakers are a finished piece right now as far as the roster is concerned? No,” he said. He suggested a move at the trade deadline for another ball handler and noted Austin Reaves “dropped a 40 piece last game.”
“I do think they need a little more depth ultimately if they’re going to make a run in the playoffs, because it’s two months of nonstop good basketball, hard basketball,” Hanlen said.
Hanlen said health may decide the title.
“A lot of times in the NBA, the NBA champion is determined by not only what team is playing the best at that time, but also injuries,” he said.
Hanlen cited a figure that 20% of NBA stars have already missed games this season. His list included Anthony Edwards with a right knee injury; Oklahoma City’s Jalen Williams, who broke his left fibula and dislocated his left ankle Oct. 25; and Thunder teammate Chet Holmgren, who is expected to miss eight to 10 weeks with a small tear in his right patellar tendon. He also named Kawhi Leonard, Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr., Paolo Banchero and Haliburton, who Hanlen said hurt his hamstring after returning and playing on consecutive nights.
“We all thought the Pacers were going to do well, and then Tyrese Haliburton goes down, and he’s their engine,” Hanlen said. “Like, when he’s in, they’re really good. When he’s out, they’re really bad.”
Cunningham asked why it is happening, noting that former NBA players on podcasts and shows have argued training camps are not hard enough anymore.
“Do you believe in what those people are saying or not really?” she asked.
Hanlen gave three reasons, starting with how the game has changed.
“Think back to like when we were young. When we were young, if somebody did a euro step, people are like, ‘Oh, euro step.’ Now kids are repping euro steps out all throughout the week. They’re repping step backs out. They’re repping pullbacks out. There’s so many more decelerations,” Hanlen said. “It helps them become a better basketball player, but it also does put stress and pressure on those same exact movements over and over throughout a course of a career.”
His mention of the 1990s Chicago Bulls he grew up idolizing led to a detour. Cunningham said she had been with Michael Jordan the previous weekend.
“I’m just always so fascinated with how big his hands are,” she said.
“That’s what you took away from talking to Michael Jordan, was just he has big hands,” Hanlen said. “You were talking with the GOAT and you were just like, ‘He has big hands.'”
Cunningham said she avoids basketball talk with Jordan. “I know people bug him about that stuff all the time. So it’s like, ‘Oh, hey, like, how are you?’ You know, it’s a good time,” she said.
“My problem is anytime I get around some of these high level athletes, I just want to sneak in a few questions, because I want to be able to help my athletes,” Hanlen said.
Back on injuries, Hanlen said basketball has moved from the passing and cutting of the 1990s to a more individual game, and training has followed.
“Nowadays, if you’re not getting specialized training for a specific sport, you’re almost behind, because you can’t just roll the ball out and hoop anymore,” he said.
Cunningham said she worries players have lost the habit of simply playing.
“I think that there’s a healthy balance between skills training and just playing. And maybe, I could be completely wrong, maybe there’s too much skills training where people aren’t just playing pickup anymore,” she said. “If they’re going to go pick up a ball, ‘Oh, I need a trainer. I need a rebounder. Let’s work on X, Y and Z.’ Like, no. Like, go get a group, go three on three, go one on one, two on two, five on five. Like, go out there and just play.”
Hanlen said his sister told him that even at the youth level, almost everything is now “structured or sanctioned.”
His second reason was sports science.
“A normal team will send out their sport science guys or their PTs or whatever, and they’ll tell us what we can and can’t do,” Hanlen said. “So they might say on Monday you can go hard but for only 45 minutes. On Tuesday, since he went hard on Monday, Tuesday only can be shooting.”
“There’s people that are literally taking them off the court. They’re like, they’ve hit their number,” he said. “So I think that has gone too far.”
His third was style of play: more 3s, more closeouts, more driving and more freedom of movement, with fewer post ups than ever. “Now everything is face up, stop, start, deceleration,” he said.
Then he made a request of NBA Commissioner Adam Silver.
“I would love to see Adam Silver eliminate back to backs. There is not one NBA player that likes back to backs,” Hanlen said. “I don’t know why it’s not a thing of just stretch the season a little bit longer, no back to backs, and the fans will get a better product.”
“At the end of the day, you’re playing a physical sport, and these guys are freaking athletic. But the amount of injury this early in the season is not right,” Cunningham said.
“It’s not about shortening the season. It’s really about can we eliminate back to backs, which is something that no player likes,” Hanlen said. “Can we improve the offseason, where guys are able to go a little harder?”
Cunningham said players also have to adapt.
“They’re getting paid a lot of money, and so like they have to adjust their lifestyles. This isn’t the ’90s anymore,” she said. “You’re going to have to come and be healthy and perform like how everyone does, but you have to find that balance.”
Hanlen noted that analytics push teams the other way.
“The problem is what wins games analytically is more possessions, more threes, more drives,” he said. “So teams are not going to basically change the way that they play if it doesn’t benefit them in the win loss column.”
“You can go to analytics, you can go to the science and everything, but literally everyone’s different,” Cunningham said. “There’s not one way of doing it.”
Asked how he would manage a season, Hanlen said, “The goal is to get to the playoffs as healthy as you can, playing the best basketball you can.”
“Answer the question. That was a copout answer,” Cunningham said.
Hanlen said he would rest players periodically early, win enough to avoid an extra qualifying round before the playoffs and then “press the button a little more” as the postseason approached. “So that’s kind of my answer, is it depends on the time of year,” he said.
“I love it. … I think that’s a very valid and sane answer,” Cunningham said. “Now, the other question is, do the stars want that?”
Hanlen pointed to Golden State’s Nov. 7 overtime win over Orlando, when coach Steve Kerr kept Stephen Curry and Draymond Green on the bench to start the extra period. Curry finished with 41 points.
“That’s insane to me,” Hanlen said. “My high school coach used to be like, ‘What?’ Like, we got to win the game. Who cares about a minute restriction? But that’s just the world we’re in, because if Steph would have got hurt, everyone would have been like, ‘Why’d you guys push him over the limit?'”
“Steph doesn’t get hurt and they lose, and they’re like, ‘Why didn’t you play him?'” he said.
He said the same debate followed Wembanyama last season. “He rested all of his minutes, and they make a Finals run, which was great, but then also in the Finals he kind of burned out, and they’re like, ‘Well, if you played him more,'” Hanlen said.
“It doesn’t matter ever what you do. There’s always going to be people who agree, and there’s always going to be people who, you know, [expletive] on it,” Cunningham said. “You’re never going to make anyone happy.”
“I think that’s the fascinating side about sport, that maybe fans think they really know, but if you really go in depth, you really don’t know, ’cause no one knows,” she said.
“It is the number one thing in NBA circles that everyone’s talking about, is how do we keep our stars healthier,” Hanlen said. “I don’t think there is a solution yet, but they’re gonna keep working on it.”
The episode closed with what Hanlen called a “full blown” film analysis of Cunningham’s game, footage she had not seen before recording.
Hanlen said Cunningham recently told him she was ready to ramp up and asked when she should start training.
“I said, ‘Yesterday,'” Hanlen said. “I really do want to give our fans a behind the scenes look at the whole process of you trying to expand and grow your game, from being one of the best, you know, catch and shoot players to somebody that is more versatile.”
“I’m not going to kind of back off from anything,” he said.
Cunningham said she asked for exactly that.
“I was like, ‘But do not hold back.’ Like, this is why I love you, is because you shoot it straight,” she said. “I want you to do it how, like, if no one else is watching. And so you guys are going to get the real deal here.”
“I’ll probably regret it, but here we go,” she added.
Hanlen started with her strength. Cunningham shot 43% on catch and shoot attempts last season, making 65 of 151, including 38% when guarded and 48% when unguarded.
“Both of those numbers are super elite, like top in the league,” Hanlen said. “You don’t change anything that you do well. If you do it really, really well, it’s like that’s your weapon. That’s the reason teams are going to want you.”
“That means you don’t focus all summer on ball handling and then lose your shot,” he said.
He wants her shooting more on the move, off screens and pin downs. “I love you moving more without the ball. I love you firing off screens,” Hanlen said.
“I think I just stopped repping it, because I do feel like … I just don’t get enough of those in a game,” Cunningham said. “So I’m like, all right, I get to catch and shoot, but this is, I’m limiting myself. So I need to get back to repping this type of stuff.”
Hanlen said he shows players clips of themselves, not only of stars, when he breaks down film.
“Then it’s like, hey, you can physically do it. You have the ability to do it. You’re just not doing it enough,” he said.
He sketched a scenario. “Let’s say you come back to the Fever. Caitlin’s on a ball screen on one side, and you’re on the other side coming off a pin down. What is the defense going to do?” Hanlen said. “‘Cause if the defense doesn’t stay attached to you, you’re free for a shot. If they do stay attached, it creates even more space for a Caitlin or a Kelsey.”
Hanlen said dribble handoffs were “almost nonexistent” in her game but could help her work around her ball handling.
“One of the things that you and I joke around about is you’re like, ‘I’m not the best ball handler. That’s something I do need to improve,'” he said. “So what’s one of the things you can easily combat that with? Getting off the ball.”
“Within the offense, I don’t really get that opportunity much, truly. But when I do, I need to be able to execute it and make the right read and make my shot,” Cunningham said. “And if I do that, then I could get those in the offense more. You know, they’re like, ‘Oh, like, she can do that.’ And so, like, that’s on me to rep it.”
Hanlen pointed to Paige Bueckers as one of the best in the league at shooting off the dribble. Cunningham liked the idea of quick shots off a single dribble.
“That will allow me to get more attempts in a game, too. So I like this,” she said.
Cunningham made 9 of 15 shots off cuts last season. “The results were there. It was just, you didn’t do it enough,” Hanlen said.
“If your defender loses vision of you, that’s where you either move, like, around the three point line, or you back cut, because they’re going to look back to where they saw you last,” he said.
Cunningham connected that to how teams practice.
“When we drill stuff, we already know the read,” she said. “Instead of always drilling and already knowing what the defense is, like, don’t have defense that, make us make the read. And if it’s not the first option, then what’s the second option, then what’s the third option?”
“I think that’s one of the biggest problems with player development, like what I do, training, is there’s not enough trainers that make you make reads in workouts, so that they translate in games,” Hanlen said. “If they’re top locking, then back door. If they’re attached and trying to wedge through, then nudge and use it. If they’re trailing, then tight curl.”
“As an individual, like, that’s what I made my career on in Mizzou, is making reads,” said Cunningham, who starred at Missouri. “I’m saying, like, overall as a team perspective, I don’t think we were good as a team of just allowing people to make the read and then playing off of that.”
“But owning my spot, I should be making the read anyway and being able to produce and make my shot,” she said. “Because if I’m doing that, then they’re not going to say anything. So, like, that’s on me.”
Cunningham went 6 of 18 on 3s off the dribble last season and attempted only two dribble 3s in transition.
“Think about all these people, the way they close you out. They run at you because they’re like, ‘Hey, she’s a top five shooter in the W,'” Hanlen said. “Being able to shoot more off the dribble threes, I think, is going to be important.”
“I need to get my attempts up,” Cunningham said.
Hanlen also wants step backs and shuffle outs against hard closeouts, showing a clip from one of their workouts. “Hopefully not with that result,” he said.
“You blocked me there,” Cunningham said.
Hanlen stressed he is not trying to turn her into an isolation scorer. “That’s just not realistic,” he said.
For her, he said, driving should mean attacking closeouts. She went 5 of 17 on drives last season and attempted only 24.
“That is not good. That means one every other game,” Hanlen said.
“Well, dude, there’s only four good,” Cunningham said of the clips.
“I don’t even think you look for it,” Hanlen said. “I think you’re basically, ‘Can I catch and shoot? If I can’t catch and shoot, just pass.'”
He wants her finishing through contact. “I think you need to do a ton of finishes … with somebody with their forearm on you or somebody rotating over and trying to block your shot,” he said.
Showing older clips of Cunningham overpowering defenders, Hanlen joked, “This was back when you were eating peanut butter and jellies. You were out there bullying.”
“That was McDonald’s,” Cunningham said.
Then she turned serious. “On a real note, I feel like when I was drafted, that was like one of the benefits of, like, how versatile, like I was able to post up and finish,” she said. “Why do you think I lost my touch of finishing?”
“I think the biggest thing is identity,” Hanlen said.
He asked what she is good at. “Shooting,” she said. Her role? “Like, shooter, space the floor.” Her job at Missouri? “Score the ball.”
“You’ve mastered shooting and spacing, which is awesome. You’ve really excelled at your role. You’ve been a top five shooter the last two seasons,” Hanlen said. “But you also, by mastering that, you’ve also eliminated some of the other things that made you really good and that you had the capability of doing.”
“People don’t realize they box themselves in, and a lot of times they blame their coaches,” he said. “I’m like, ‘No, your coach would love if you could do all those other things. It’s just you haven’t proven to them in practice or in games that you are going to do those things successfully.'”
The defensive portion opened with a clip Hanlen included for laughs.
“Drew, what are you doing?” Cunningham said.
“All right, sorry, there was no teaching points there. That was just too good to not put on here,” Hanlen said.
“That one wasn’t nice of you, because you could have picked a lot,” Cunningham said.
Hanlen’s main point was to get into the ball. “That’s way too much space for a good player,” he said. “People don’t realize sometimes, they’re like, ‘Well, I’m not as fast, so I want to give them space.’ By giving them space, they’re more comfortable. They can dance more. Now when they fake, you overreact more.”
“I just need to be up more,” Cunningham said. “That was early in the game, and we wanted to, like, cat and mouse the three and not let her get to the paint. But I also think there’s a balance of still being close enough that she doesn’t even get that wide open shot.”
“When I am into the ball, like, I have more physical control, and so I can control where they go maybe a little bit more,” she said. “If I’m not touching them at all, … I’m reacting to them. You know what I mean? And that’s never good.”
“Well said,” Hanlen said.
He introduced a concept he calls hollowing out: when beaten, sprinting to beat the driver to the next spot instead of chesting up on the hip.
“I’ve never heard of hollowing out. That’s a new one for me,” Cunningham said.
Hanlen pointed to Veronica Burton, one of the league’s better defenders, as an example.
“It’s like I’m not going to stay pressed up and walled up. I’m just going to sprint and beat them to the spot,” Hanlen said.
“So once I see that I’m beat, instead of trying to chest up and be physical, I’m actually almost kind of creating a little bit of space to beat them to that next spot,” Cunningham said.
“It’s almost like you do the opposite,” Hanlen said. “You give them space early, and then when they beat you, you try to take away the space, where I’d rather you take away the space, and if they beat you, then create space.”
On ball screens, Cunningham explained her hesitation.
“I struggle, ’cause, like, Dana is fast as [expletive]. So I’m trying not to get, like, I’m just telling you my thought process. If I get up in her, she is going right by me,” she said.
“In my opinion, right now you don’t feel comfortable. But what you don’t realize is you’re just giving her a leeway to kind of feel comfortable, feel comfortable, and then it’s a race, and she’s going to beat you in that race every single time,” Hanlen said.
“If you can rush somebody by getting into the ball, now it’s going to be harder for them to make the right reads and make the right decisions,” he said. “You want them to play at your pace, not theirs.”
“So you’re going to be having, like, defensive slides again? Like I’m in second grade?” Cunningham said.
“No defensive slide. That’s not how you work on defense,” Hanlen said. He said she guards in three situations: closeouts, isolations and ball screens.
Hanlen summed up the plan as three goals on offense and three on defense.
“It’s not saying, ‘Hey, we’re going to turn you into the leading scorer in the W,'” he said. “It’s, ‘Hey, this is my role, but I’m just going to get better and expand my role so that I can be an even better version of a floor spacer and shooter.'”
“You have three things on defense, three things on offense. You lock in on those things, get really good at them, and then you come back and you’re a completely new player,” Hanlen said.
Cunningham said she is ready.
“Dude, this is exciting. … I’m more than capable of doing it,” she said. “Watching that, I’m like, I feel like I should be doing that stuff already, but I’m not. So this is gonna be really good for me.”
“I know it’s going to be freaking hard, but I think this is, like, this is what I want. Like, I am not satisfied with where I’m at. I think there’s so much more in my tank,” Cunningham said. “It’s time to expand. This is going to be a great offseason.”
She closed with a message for younger players.
“Sometimes you just don’t know what you don’t know,” Cunningham said. “I’m at the highest level, and I still feel like sometimes I don’t know exactly what I should be doing, and that’s why you have a village. … I’m elevating my game just like how other people are elevating their game in middle school, high school, college, pros. Like, it never stops. Never stops.”
